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Thursday, July 15, 2010
Slideshow: Casey Anthony in court: 911 calls will be entered in trial (poll, chat, photos, videos)
Slideshow: Casey Anthony in court: 911 calls will be entered in trial (poll, chat, photos, videos)
After a lengthy court hearing today, Judge Belvin Perry determined that the 911 calls made by Cindy Anthony will be admissible during the 2011 Casey Anthony murder trial. The pretrial hearing began at 2:00 p.m., ET and saw Lee Anthony and Cindy Anthony take the stand. It may be ironic, but the ruling indicates that Cindy Anthony’s own frantic words may be used against her daughter during her murder trial.
Slideshow: Casey Anthony in court: 911 calls will be entered in trial (poll, chat, photos, videos)
Casey Anthony case update: Court photos, pretrial hearing, Cindy and Lee Anthony take the stand | Prime Writer News Network
Casey Anthony was in court today joined by her family. The only person missing today was her daughter Caylee Anthony. Casey Anthony is accused of murdering her daughter in June 2008, today the pretrial hearing focused on 911 calls made by her mother, Cindy Anthony. In today’s court proceedings, Cindy and Lee Anthony took the stand and testified, followed by Casey Anthony’s brother Lee.
You may see photos from the court proceeding here
Casey Anthony case update: Court photos, pretrial hearing, Cindy and Lee Anthony take the stand
Nancy Grace transcript July 14
Part 3
BREMNER: Nancy, you know, those are two separate things the last time I checked, sending pictures to yourself versus having sex, doing the deed.
GRACE: Okay, you know what?
BREMNER: The fact is one of your other guests --
GRACE: I`ll throw you a bone. Put Bremner up. I`ll throw you a bone, all right?
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: You win, Bremner. She`s not having an affair. Let`s just pretend she`s not having an affair.
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: Why is she sending hundreds of sexual text messages and sexually explicit photos at a time when her stepson has just gone missing? There. Let me hear the answer to that. I can`t wait to hear this.
BREMNER: Let`s take a look at two scenarios. A, like someone just suggested, they were involved before the disappearance of Kyron.
GRACE: So.
BREMNER: Therefore they`re still involved. Second though is, Nancy - -
GRACE: Her son has just gone missing.
BREMNER: How is this relevant to anything and it --
GRACE: Her state of mind. Hugo, Hugo, Hugo, please, help Anne.
RODRIGUEZ: No, no, I can`t help you, Nancy. State of mind but not as to a crime concerning Kyron. That`s what the focus is. If they plan to charge her with anything concerning her son it is totally irrelevant and not admissible. There`s no way you`re getting that in as a state of mind.
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to go -- I`m not talking about getting something in in court. I`m not talking about something that remote. Right now, Mark Klaas, I am talking about a 7-year-old little boy who is very likely dead, who very likely by all accounts, Terri Horman knows his whereabouts.
I`m talking about now to you, Mark Klaas, who lost your daughter to violence taken out of her own home. I don`t care what the shrink says. I don`t care what the lawyers say. I know what I know. And when your child goes missing, you`re not all about sending sexual texts and photos.
MARK KLAAS: No.
GRACE: I don`t care what any of you say about that.
KLAAS: No, you`re absolutely right about state of mind. I`d like to put a context on the supposed -- or the attempted abduction out of the gym. As I understand it, Kaine had moved out two days previously and he had taken the little girl with him. She knew full well where the child was, but according to the conversation that she had with the gym clerk, she was willing to go in and snatch that little girl away without his permission or without his knowledge.
That in my mind, whether legally or not, is a kidnapping, and this gal was ready to do a high-risk kidnapping to get that little girl away from that man. And as far as I`m concerned, that`s very relevant to the disappearance of Kyron himself. It`s almost in many ways a similar scenario, without any rhyme or reason, without any care about anything but her own immediate needs, she`s willing to make a little girl or a little boy disappear.
GRACE: Mark Klaas, listen. I don`t care who sends what photos over their cell phone as long as I don`t have to look at them. What I`m saying is something about this most recent report that we have just discovered about this mother, this stepmother -- I mean this child is so defenseless.
He`s a 7-year-old little boy, 3 feet tall, 50 pounds, his eyeglasses are like the bottom of coke bottles, and she was entrusted to take care of him, to love him. And within a -- it`s like a minute after she reports him missing, she`s sending sex messages.
KLAAS: She cares about -- she cares about nothing besides herself. This is classic narcissistic behavior without consideration for the consequences. It`s narcissus. It`s sociopathic. There`s nothing good about this woman, her motivation, her actions or the potential of future behavior in future crimes.
GRACE: I mean, Mark, when you`re sitting there right now like I`m sitting here listening to the defense attorneys talk about how it`s relevant, how it`s to going to come into court, how it doesn`t matter. It does matter. To every crime victim out there, you know in your heart it does matter. It proves something.
KLAAS: Of course, it does. And if you want to see how a mother behaves when a child disappears, just look at the other side of this coin. Look at the bio-mom. Look at every time she comes on TV. She begs for information. She says this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron. She`s not getting on her phone.
She`s not getting -- taking pictures of herself and send them to somebody. She`s not breaking restraining orders. She`s focused on finding her son and doing nothing more. You can tell that this woman is a complete emotional wreck who only wants to find her child. That`s how a parent behaves when their child is missing, particularly over the long term like this.
GRACE: Take a listen to Kyron`s mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: To know that I was four and a half hours away when he need me to protect him, that`s what I feel guilty for. The fact that I had to work that day instead of going to the science fair like I wanted to, that I feel guilty for too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Kyron`s biological mother, Desiree Young. She was on the NBC "Today" show and I want to remind everyone that Terri Horman has not been named a suspect by police in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron. Out to the lines, Chris in New Jersey. Hi, Chris.
CHRIS: Hello, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHRIS: Have the police given Michael Cook a polygraph yet?
GRACE: Good question. To James Pinken, reporter with The Willamette Week Newspaper, joining us out of Portland, Oregon. James, have they given him a poly?
PITKIN: Nancy he has had interviews with investigators. Whether a polygraph was involved, we`re not sure. But he did say to the public, to the press that they did not have sex. He denied that explicitly.
GRACE: Is he married?
PITKIN: It`s unknown. Not much is known about Michael Cook except that he was involved in the search for Kyron from very early on. He did organized a vigil. He helped put signs up above the highway. He told the press that he became better friends with Terri than he was with Kaine initially so they developed a relationship very quickly.
GRACE: Well, that`s certainly like putting perfume on the pig James Pitkin, by saying they developing a relationship. They were sending naked photos back and forth, James. I would certainly qualify that as more than just a friendship. I`ll be back with James Pitkin reporter with the Atlantic Week Newspaper, but as we go to break, I want to wish a very, very happy birthday to a friend of show, Kylie Barnes.
She`s the beautiful daughter of Karen Barnes who passed away last September and a late Atlanta Fulton County Superior Court Judge, Roland Barnes. He lost his life in that tragic courthouse shooting in 2005. A paralegal with two degrees in criminal justice Kylie wants to go to law school, and she`s writing a book about her father. They were best friends. Happy birthday, Kylie, and, please, stay strong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new allegations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bombshell tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An alleged love triangle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmother Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sexual relationship with Michael Cook. Who`s Michael Cook?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only reasonable to assume that people would speculate and become suspicious of Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Old school friend, Michael Cook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron we miss you, we love you, and we need you home right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New allegations step mom tried to kidnap her baby girl from dad`s gym day care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New search is underway now for 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
YOUNG: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry I don`t even have words. I just really want her to do the right thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help us bring Kyron home.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Joshua Perper. Dr. Perper, searchers are focusing on an area near Skyline School. At this point if Kyron is dead, what would be the condition of his body?
PERPER: Well, it depends on what condition the body`s found, in what environment. If he`s unfortunately left on the surface of the earth, the decomposition is going to be faster. If the body is buried or if the body is put in some kind of container. So it depends in what kind of environment and what kind of protective clothing or other equipment the body is encased in.
GRACE: Another question, Dr. Perper, is that it has been suggested that Terri Horman may have suffered postpartum depression after the birth of the little girl. The little girl is about 19 months old. How long does it take for postpartum depression to set in?
PERPER: Well, the depression, the depression related to a pregnancy varies in lengths, but sometimes it appears only with the resolution of pregnancy. In other words after the child is born, and even then it can take several months. It depends on the general constitution of the individual, of the woman, and whether she receives treatment. But that`s a difficult problem because many women during pregnancy for a variety of biological and psychological reasons suffer a depression.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, Jean, I want to go back to hiring the hit man to allegedly kill Kyron`s father. When did that allegedly happen?
CASAREZ: That happened late last year, November/December and we now know that`s the reason for the restraining order. Originally it was sealed but then it was unsealed. And Nancy, towards your state of mind, here`s something else. On June 28 when she went to try to abduct her own little girl, Kiara, their little girl from this gym day care, that`s also the time Michael Cook went over to the house, police searched his cell phone and found a cell phone image of the address where little Kiara would be with her father, and also they found on the cell phone Google map searches of where they were residing at that time.
GRACE: And that says to you they were going to try to get the little girl?
CASAREZ: Two state of minds that are the same. That`s exactly right.
GRACE: What I don`t understand, to Bruce McCain, former captain of the sheriff`s office, attorney, joining us out of Portland, Oregon, is why an arrest has not been made in the hiring -- the alleged hiring of a hit man to kill the husband.
MCCAIN: Well Nancy, as I mentioned last week on this very program, you know as well as I do big difference between probably cause and arrest and proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The thing is the prosecutors are working hand in hand with the investigators. The DA is actually controlling this process. They`re not going to arrest Terri Horman for any felony unless and until they have an airtight case they can get a conviction on.
The last thing they want to do is arrest her on some chippy charge only to see her turn around and walk out of the jail with all the cameras on her. So that fact that she`s not been named a suspect or even a person of interest who as you know, has no legal significance at all, doesn`t mean she`s not the focal suspect in this case.
GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, I was just thinking to myself, hiring a hitman is not a chippy charge. But the other thing about it is you said before she`s not a suspect. She`s also not been named a person of interest. The fact of the matter is she`s as innocent as anybody else walking the street in Portland right now, and everyone is throwing stones at her.
GRACE: Please say something relevant.
BREMNER: I`m saying everything relevant.
GRACE: I asked why there has not been an arrest in the hitman case, and you`re talking about people looking at her on the street. I don`t care.
BREMNER: That`s not what I`m talking about. I`m saying everyone is dumping on her in terms of saying that she`s guilty with all kinds of irrelevant evidence. Evidence. And the fact is she has -- there`s been no arrest in the hitman case --
GRACE: Just because you Anne Bremner --
BREMNER: -- they don`t have the evidence. They don`t have the evidence.
GRACE: I know you`ve handled a lot of cases but just because you think the evidence is irrelevant doesn`t mean that it`s irrelevant.
BREMNER: You know what?
GRACE: Go ahead.
BREMNER: It`s so salacious. It`s not what I think. It`s what is going to be admissible in court and by the way, the standard right now the is probable cause. They don`t need proof beyond a reasonable doubt and they haven`t called her a person of interest at the --
GRACE: Thank you. I said that about ten times, that she`s not been named a suspect. Out to the lines, Dorian in Georgia. Hi, Dorian.
DORIAN: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, Dorian. What`s your question, dear?
DORIAN Okay. Well, I was wondering, do they know the whereabouts -- Michael Cook`s whereabouts on the day that Kyron disappeared?
GRACE: Now that is a good question. What about it? To you James Pitkin with the Atlanta Week Newspaper. Where was Cook?
PITKEN: I talked to Kaine Horman. He said that he didn`t see Cook for years, only after Kyron disappeared did he contact the family wanting to help. So it`s uncertain where he was that day, even whether he was aware that the Hormans lived in the vicinity.
GRACE: And Michael Cook is the husband`s high school friend that has gotten hundreds of sexually-related text messages from the stepmother and dozen of sexually explicit photos sent over e-mail and phone. He says they`re not having sex.
Okay, we`re switching gears but I want to give you the tipline, . There`s a $25,000 reward. She`s been kept a prisoner. She has been bound, tied, and under constant surveillance, under 20 cameras. The kidnapper, her own husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A California man has been arrested for allegedly binding and beating his wife because she spoke to a, quote, unauthorized man. The victim told cops her husband would regularly beat her and wouldn`t let her leave the house, allegedly installing 20 surveillance cameras inside the house to monitor while he was away.
The wife reportedly told investigators her husband became angry after she spoke to another man, (inaudible), binding her with duct tape in the bathroom and threatening to kill her if the police got involved. The husband turned himself in Monday and was booked on charges including kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what happened?
ELLIE: Nancy, police are saying that this 30-year-old victim suffered a brutal pattern of abuse and control at the hands of her own husband. Her friend who was concerned that she hadn`t heard from her, she called in sick to work, reportedly forced to do so by her husband. She went to the house, found this woman bound with duct tape, beaten, confined to the bathroom. This woman told police that the --
GRACE: Ellie, how can a grown woman be confined to the bathroom? It`s like me telling you to go sit in the corner?
ELLIE: Right. Well, apparently, Nancy, the husband threatened her with a knife, said he`d kill her if she called police or if she left the bathroom. They also say he had a very sophisticated surveillance system. Cameras set up all over the house which were streamed to his phone, possibly his iPhone we`ve heard from reports, and that he was monitoring her when he wasn`t home so he knew where she was every minute.
GRACE: So he could watch her in the home over his iPhone?
ELLIE: That`s right. And they say that he had this sophisticated system. He had fingerprint-activated door locks, over $10,000 worth of security and surveillance equipment in that home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this and the method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have arrested a California man after he allegedly beat his wife for talking to a, quote, unauthorized man, then duct-taped her and confined her to the bathroom of their home. Police were called after the wife`s friend found bound and beaten in the bathroom. The victim reportedly told cops her husband would frequently beat her and not even let her leave the house unless she was with him or going to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this. The method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops reportedly found 20 cameras installed throughout the house. The video feed allegedly going straight to the husband`s iPhone. The husband is now facing charges, including kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, false imprisonment and spousal abuse.
GRACE: Alreisa Sarjachari, age 31, charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon -- a knife, domestic battery, false imprisonment, criminal threats, witness intimidation. The victim? His own wife. This guy allegedly sets up a web of over 20 surveillance cameras on his own wife. Ellie, is it true that she would go to work and she never said anything to anyone?
ELLIE: Well, Nancy, he would not allow her -- remember, police say that this whole thing started because she spoke to an unauthorized man and that was why the husband became enraged, beat her, confined her to the house. He allegedly wouldn`t let her leave the house unless he was with her or she was going to work. She worked as a retail clerk we`re told.
GRACE: Is this guy American?
ELLIE: Don`t know that, Nancy, at this point.
GRACE: Did he also work, Ellie?
ELLIE: Yes, he did. He worked for a technology firm in Irvine. He`s a computer specialist we`re told.
GRACE: There`s a $150,000 bond. We are not naming the victim in this case. She`s a 30-year-old woman. The wife of the suspect. Let`s hope she is safe tonight. Let`s stop and remember army private first class David Simmons, 20. Kosovo, Indiana, killed, Iraq. From a long line of vets, awarded the bronze star, purple heart, loved the outdoors, hunting, fishing with his father, camping, baseball, go-karts, military history, favorite movies "Pearl Harbor" and "Saving Private Ryan." Remembered as everybody`s friend, with a smile that lit up a room. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Terry. David Simmons, American hero.
Thank you it to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, goodnight, friend.
END
BREMNER: Nancy, you know, those are two separate things the last time I checked, sending pictures to yourself versus having sex, doing the deed.
GRACE: Okay, you know what?
BREMNER: The fact is one of your other guests --
GRACE: I`ll throw you a bone. Put Bremner up. I`ll throw you a bone, all right?
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: You win, Bremner. She`s not having an affair. Let`s just pretend she`s not having an affair.
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: Why is she sending hundreds of sexual text messages and sexually explicit photos at a time when her stepson has just gone missing? There. Let me hear the answer to that. I can`t wait to hear this.
BREMNER: Let`s take a look at two scenarios. A, like someone just suggested, they were involved before the disappearance of Kyron.
GRACE: So.
BREMNER: Therefore they`re still involved. Second though is, Nancy - -
GRACE: Her son has just gone missing.
BREMNER: How is this relevant to anything and it --
GRACE: Her state of mind. Hugo, Hugo, Hugo, please, help Anne.
RODRIGUEZ: No, no, I can`t help you, Nancy. State of mind but not as to a crime concerning Kyron. That`s what the focus is. If they plan to charge her with anything concerning her son it is totally irrelevant and not admissible. There`s no way you`re getting that in as a state of mind.
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to go -- I`m not talking about getting something in in court. I`m not talking about something that remote. Right now, Mark Klaas, I am talking about a 7-year-old little boy who is very likely dead, who very likely by all accounts, Terri Horman knows his whereabouts.
I`m talking about now to you, Mark Klaas, who lost your daughter to violence taken out of her own home. I don`t care what the shrink says. I don`t care what the lawyers say. I know what I know. And when your child goes missing, you`re not all about sending sexual texts and photos.
MARK KLAAS: No.
GRACE: I don`t care what any of you say about that.
KLAAS: No, you`re absolutely right about state of mind. I`d like to put a context on the supposed -- or the attempted abduction out of the gym. As I understand it, Kaine had moved out two days previously and he had taken the little girl with him. She knew full well where the child was, but according to the conversation that she had with the gym clerk, she was willing to go in and snatch that little girl away without his permission or without his knowledge.
That in my mind, whether legally or not, is a kidnapping, and this gal was ready to do a high-risk kidnapping to get that little girl away from that man. And as far as I`m concerned, that`s very relevant to the disappearance of Kyron himself. It`s almost in many ways a similar scenario, without any rhyme or reason, without any care about anything but her own immediate needs, she`s willing to make a little girl or a little boy disappear.
GRACE: Mark Klaas, listen. I don`t care who sends what photos over their cell phone as long as I don`t have to look at them. What I`m saying is something about this most recent report that we have just discovered about this mother, this stepmother -- I mean this child is so defenseless.
He`s a 7-year-old little boy, 3 feet tall, 50 pounds, his eyeglasses are like the bottom of coke bottles, and she was entrusted to take care of him, to love him. And within a -- it`s like a minute after she reports him missing, she`s sending sex messages.
KLAAS: She cares about -- she cares about nothing besides herself. This is classic narcissistic behavior without consideration for the consequences. It`s narcissus. It`s sociopathic. There`s nothing good about this woman, her motivation, her actions or the potential of future behavior in future crimes.
GRACE: I mean, Mark, when you`re sitting there right now like I`m sitting here listening to the defense attorneys talk about how it`s relevant, how it`s to going to come into court, how it doesn`t matter. It does matter. To every crime victim out there, you know in your heart it does matter. It proves something.
KLAAS: Of course, it does. And if you want to see how a mother behaves when a child disappears, just look at the other side of this coin. Look at the bio-mom. Look at every time she comes on TV. She begs for information. She says this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron. She`s not getting on her phone.
She`s not getting -- taking pictures of herself and send them to somebody. She`s not breaking restraining orders. She`s focused on finding her son and doing nothing more. You can tell that this woman is a complete emotional wreck who only wants to find her child. That`s how a parent behaves when their child is missing, particularly over the long term like this.
GRACE: Take a listen to Kyron`s mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: To know that I was four and a half hours away when he need me to protect him, that`s what I feel guilty for. The fact that I had to work that day instead of going to the science fair like I wanted to, that I feel guilty for too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Kyron`s biological mother, Desiree Young. She was on the NBC "Today" show and I want to remind everyone that Terri Horman has not been named a suspect by police in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron. Out to the lines, Chris in New Jersey. Hi, Chris.
CHRIS: Hello, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHRIS: Have the police given Michael Cook a polygraph yet?
GRACE: Good question. To James Pinken, reporter with The Willamette Week Newspaper, joining us out of Portland, Oregon. James, have they given him a poly?
PITKIN: Nancy he has had interviews with investigators. Whether a polygraph was involved, we`re not sure. But he did say to the public, to the press that they did not have sex. He denied that explicitly.
GRACE: Is he married?
PITKIN: It`s unknown. Not much is known about Michael Cook except that he was involved in the search for Kyron from very early on. He did organized a vigil. He helped put signs up above the highway. He told the press that he became better friends with Terri than he was with Kaine initially so they developed a relationship very quickly.
GRACE: Well, that`s certainly like putting perfume on the pig James Pitkin, by saying they developing a relationship. They were sending naked photos back and forth, James. I would certainly qualify that as more than just a friendship. I`ll be back with James Pitkin reporter with the Atlantic Week Newspaper, but as we go to break, I want to wish a very, very happy birthday to a friend of show, Kylie Barnes.
She`s the beautiful daughter of Karen Barnes who passed away last September and a late Atlanta Fulton County Superior Court Judge, Roland Barnes. He lost his life in that tragic courthouse shooting in 2005. A paralegal with two degrees in criminal justice Kylie wants to go to law school, and she`s writing a book about her father. They were best friends. Happy birthday, Kylie, and, please, stay strong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new allegations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bombshell tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An alleged love triangle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmother Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sexual relationship with Michael Cook. Who`s Michael Cook?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only reasonable to assume that people would speculate and become suspicious of Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Old school friend, Michael Cook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron we miss you, we love you, and we need you home right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New allegations step mom tried to kidnap her baby girl from dad`s gym day care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New search is underway now for 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
YOUNG: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry I don`t even have words. I just really want her to do the right thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help us bring Kyron home.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Joshua Perper. Dr. Perper, searchers are focusing on an area near Skyline School. At this point if Kyron is dead, what would be the condition of his body?
PERPER: Well, it depends on what condition the body`s found, in what environment. If he`s unfortunately left on the surface of the earth, the decomposition is going to be faster. If the body is buried or if the body is put in some kind of container. So it depends in what kind of environment and what kind of protective clothing or other equipment the body is encased in.
GRACE: Another question, Dr. Perper, is that it has been suggested that Terri Horman may have suffered postpartum depression after the birth of the little girl. The little girl is about 19 months old. How long does it take for postpartum depression to set in?
PERPER: Well, the depression, the depression related to a pregnancy varies in lengths, but sometimes it appears only with the resolution of pregnancy. In other words after the child is born, and even then it can take several months. It depends on the general constitution of the individual, of the woman, and whether she receives treatment. But that`s a difficult problem because many women during pregnancy for a variety of biological and psychological reasons suffer a depression.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, Jean, I want to go back to hiring the hit man to allegedly kill Kyron`s father. When did that allegedly happen?
CASAREZ: That happened late last year, November/December and we now know that`s the reason for the restraining order. Originally it was sealed but then it was unsealed. And Nancy, towards your state of mind, here`s something else. On June 28 when she went to try to abduct her own little girl, Kiara, their little girl from this gym day care, that`s also the time Michael Cook went over to the house, police searched his cell phone and found a cell phone image of the address where little Kiara would be with her father, and also they found on the cell phone Google map searches of where they were residing at that time.
GRACE: And that says to you they were going to try to get the little girl?
CASAREZ: Two state of minds that are the same. That`s exactly right.
GRACE: What I don`t understand, to Bruce McCain, former captain of the sheriff`s office, attorney, joining us out of Portland, Oregon, is why an arrest has not been made in the hiring -- the alleged hiring of a hit man to kill the husband.
MCCAIN: Well Nancy, as I mentioned last week on this very program, you know as well as I do big difference between probably cause and arrest and proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The thing is the prosecutors are working hand in hand with the investigators. The DA is actually controlling this process. They`re not going to arrest Terri Horman for any felony unless and until they have an airtight case they can get a conviction on.
The last thing they want to do is arrest her on some chippy charge only to see her turn around and walk out of the jail with all the cameras on her. So that fact that she`s not been named a suspect or even a person of interest who as you know, has no legal significance at all, doesn`t mean she`s not the focal suspect in this case.
GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, I was just thinking to myself, hiring a hitman is not a chippy charge. But the other thing about it is you said before she`s not a suspect. She`s also not been named a person of interest. The fact of the matter is she`s as innocent as anybody else walking the street in Portland right now, and everyone is throwing stones at her.
GRACE: Please say something relevant.
BREMNER: I`m saying everything relevant.
GRACE: I asked why there has not been an arrest in the hitman case, and you`re talking about people looking at her on the street. I don`t care.
BREMNER: That`s not what I`m talking about. I`m saying everyone is dumping on her in terms of saying that she`s guilty with all kinds of irrelevant evidence. Evidence. And the fact is she has -- there`s been no arrest in the hitman case --
GRACE: Just because you Anne Bremner --
BREMNER: -- they don`t have the evidence. They don`t have the evidence.
GRACE: I know you`ve handled a lot of cases but just because you think the evidence is irrelevant doesn`t mean that it`s irrelevant.
BREMNER: You know what?
GRACE: Go ahead.
BREMNER: It`s so salacious. It`s not what I think. It`s what is going to be admissible in court and by the way, the standard right now the is probable cause. They don`t need proof beyond a reasonable doubt and they haven`t called her a person of interest at the --
GRACE: Thank you. I said that about ten times, that she`s not been named a suspect. Out to the lines, Dorian in Georgia. Hi, Dorian.
DORIAN: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, Dorian. What`s your question, dear?
DORIAN Okay. Well, I was wondering, do they know the whereabouts -- Michael Cook`s whereabouts on the day that Kyron disappeared?
GRACE: Now that is a good question. What about it? To you James Pitkin with the Atlanta Week Newspaper. Where was Cook?
PITKEN: I talked to Kaine Horman. He said that he didn`t see Cook for years, only after Kyron disappeared did he contact the family wanting to help. So it`s uncertain where he was that day, even whether he was aware that the Hormans lived in the vicinity.
GRACE: And Michael Cook is the husband`s high school friend that has gotten hundreds of sexually-related text messages from the stepmother and dozen of sexually explicit photos sent over e-mail and phone. He says they`re not having sex.
Okay, we`re switching gears but I want to give you the tipline, . There`s a $25,000 reward. She`s been kept a prisoner. She has been bound, tied, and under constant surveillance, under 20 cameras. The kidnapper, her own husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A California man has been arrested for allegedly binding and beating his wife because she spoke to a, quote, unauthorized man. The victim told cops her husband would regularly beat her and wouldn`t let her leave the house, allegedly installing 20 surveillance cameras inside the house to monitor while he was away.
The wife reportedly told investigators her husband became angry after she spoke to another man, (inaudible), binding her with duct tape in the bathroom and threatening to kill her if the police got involved. The husband turned himself in Monday and was booked on charges including kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what happened?
ELLIE: Nancy, police are saying that this 30-year-old victim suffered a brutal pattern of abuse and control at the hands of her own husband. Her friend who was concerned that she hadn`t heard from her, she called in sick to work, reportedly forced to do so by her husband. She went to the house, found this woman bound with duct tape, beaten, confined to the bathroom. This woman told police that the --
GRACE: Ellie, how can a grown woman be confined to the bathroom? It`s like me telling you to go sit in the corner?
ELLIE: Right. Well, apparently, Nancy, the husband threatened her with a knife, said he`d kill her if she called police or if she left the bathroom. They also say he had a very sophisticated surveillance system. Cameras set up all over the house which were streamed to his phone, possibly his iPhone we`ve heard from reports, and that he was monitoring her when he wasn`t home so he knew where she was every minute.
GRACE: So he could watch her in the home over his iPhone?
ELLIE: That`s right. And they say that he had this sophisticated system. He had fingerprint-activated door locks, over $10,000 worth of security and surveillance equipment in that home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this and the method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have arrested a California man after he allegedly beat his wife for talking to a, quote, unauthorized man, then duct-taped her and confined her to the bathroom of their home. Police were called after the wife`s friend found bound and beaten in the bathroom. The victim reportedly told cops her husband would frequently beat her and not even let her leave the house unless she was with him or going to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this. The method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops reportedly found 20 cameras installed throughout the house. The video feed allegedly going straight to the husband`s iPhone. The husband is now facing charges, including kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, false imprisonment and spousal abuse.
GRACE: Alreisa Sarjachari, age 31, charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon -- a knife, domestic battery, false imprisonment, criminal threats, witness intimidation. The victim? His own wife. This guy allegedly sets up a web of over 20 surveillance cameras on his own wife. Ellie, is it true that she would go to work and she never said anything to anyone?
ELLIE: Well, Nancy, he would not allow her -- remember, police say that this whole thing started because she spoke to an unauthorized man and that was why the husband became enraged, beat her, confined her to the house. He allegedly wouldn`t let her leave the house unless he was with her or she was going to work. She worked as a retail clerk we`re told.
GRACE: Is this guy American?
ELLIE: Don`t know that, Nancy, at this point.
GRACE: Did he also work, Ellie?
ELLIE: Yes, he did. He worked for a technology firm in Irvine. He`s a computer specialist we`re told.
GRACE: There`s a $150,000 bond. We are not naming the victim in this case. She`s a 30-year-old woman. The wife of the suspect. Let`s hope she is safe tonight. Let`s stop and remember army private first class David Simmons, 20. Kosovo, Indiana, killed, Iraq. From a long line of vets, awarded the bronze star, purple heart, loved the outdoors, hunting, fishing with his father, camping, baseball, go-karts, military history, favorite movies "Pearl Harbor" and "Saving Private Ryan." Remembered as everybody`s friend, with a smile that lit up a room. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Terry. David Simmons, American hero.
Thank you it to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, goodnight, friend.
END
Nancy Grace transcript July 14
Part 2
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... an affair with one of Kaine Horman`s friends...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He admits that they were friends. He did not have sex with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his wife and Cook had been having an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were texts. There were photos.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her marriage started out as an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want Kyron to come home and have all this other stuff out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say? Do you know where Kyron is? Yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little boy is missing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... missing Oregon boy Kyron Horman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she was the last person to see him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmom Terri Horman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... all these other twists...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents suggest she came to the club looking to abduct her 20-month-old daughter, Kiara, from the gym day care center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... alleged murder-for-hire plot...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A landscaper claims Terri offered a large sum of money to kill her husband, Kaine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron`s father moved out, filed for divorce and got a restraining order.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In it, Kaine Horman said he believes his wife, Terri Horman, is involved in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right at this particular point, I think our detectives have got to -- they`re working on a very sound case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... waiting for that break that could come in the case at some point...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The focus is still to find little Kyron Horman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Looking for a break in the case? What more do you need? We now have the stepmom, who says she walked 7-year-old Kyron to his door after the science fair, his door in the elementary school, there in a very rural area. She says he is never seen again. We now have her cell phone popping up in other areas than where she says she was, an alleged attempt to hire a hit man to kill Kyron`s father, her husband, now hundreds of text messages, sexually-related, dozens of sexually explicit photos she`s sending over the computer. And this is after Kyron goes missing?
To top it all off, Matt Zarrell, are you telling me she tried to kidnap the 19-month-old baby girl from day care? What more do police need!
ZARRELL: Yes, police told Kaine Horman that on or about June 28th, the same exact day she was served with the restraining order, just before she was served, she went to the gym where Kaine Horman works out and was asking if Kaine Horman was there with Kiara. Now, he wasn`t, but Terri Horman told the clerk at the gym that the next time he comes in with Kiara, she wants him to call her because she wants to come and take Kiara.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle Anne Bremner. Also Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, former fed, joining me out of Miami.
Anne Bremner, she allegedly tries to hire a hit man to kill Kyron`s father, and she thinks she can have custody of the baby? No! No, no! It doesn`t work like that, Anne Bremner!
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, but Nancy, you said, Hand me a handcuff. I think you want a pair of handcuffs for her. But the fact is, one of these things is not like the others. You know, potentially hiring a hit man -- we don`t actual have proof of that, and that happened what, six months ago, supposedly? And then the child kidnapping? Uh-uh! The restraining order had yet to be served on her, so she had no legal requirement that she not take the child or be around the child.
And then, finally, when you`re looking at a supposed abduction of her own stepson, what kind of evidence do we really have? The last one that`s seen with him, yes. This is my part of the country, you know, Northwest. Everybody up here thinks she did it. But you know what? Is there evidence that she did it? I don`t know.
GRACE: Well, other than her lying to investigators...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... according to sources, Marc Klaas, about where she was after the child went missing.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, it`s one thing after another that just continues to pile up. And the whole problem is -- and this is what you`ve mentioned. The focus has to remain on finding little Kyron, and she`s just not giving up that information, which I believe is why they keep revealing ugly layer after ugly layer of her hideous behavior since the moment that he disappeared.
GRACE: You know, another issue. I want to go back to you, Jean Casarez. When she allegedly went to the day care -- which, number one, I don`t understand why the baby was in day care because she wasn`t working. So why is she, you know, stashing the baby in day care? But that`s a whole `nother can of worms. When she went to day care and told them to tell her, when he showed up with the baby, that she wanted to get the baby, when was the restraining order served on her in relation to that visit or that call to the day care?
CASAREZ: I think it was on the 28th, so I think it was the very same day the restraining order came down. Whether she had been served with it or not, I don`t know. But it was the day care that he works out at -- the gymnasium...
GRACE: Oh, it`s the gym day care.
CASAREZ: Yes, the gym day care.
GRACE: All right. But that`s -- that`s a different story. She`s just putting child there while she goes and works out. OK, I understand that. Tell me again about the date that happened, Jean Casarez, and the date that she said, When he comes to the day care, I want to know about it.
CASAREZ: That`s right. She went to the gym day care thinking he might be working out, and the baby, their baby, would be in the day care. And she wanted to abduct it. Now, that`s the words of the clerk because...
GRACE: But what was that day? What day did she go to the day care to try to find the baby?
CASAREZ: I think it was June 28th.
GRACE: And what day was the restraining order?
CASAREZ: June 28th.
GRACE: All right, there you go, Hugo Rodriguez. And if you just look at it -- I heard what Bremner said, that she hadn`t been served yet. Well, you know what? If she hadn`t been served, it`s a technicality because she clearly knew that...
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, she didn`t.
GRACE: ... she was going to try to get the baby. Why -- if she didn`t know he was keeping the baby from her, why would she say, Let me know, call me when he comes, I`m going to come get the baby?
RODRIGUEZ: The restraining order had not been served.
GRACE: So?
RODRIGUEZ: She had no idea that it was coming. She did not know it was coming. The restraining order is based on the allegation that she was going to hire somebody six months prior. There was nothing improper with her asking about her child and wanting to see her child. Nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search is under way now for 7-year-old Kyron Horman. According to affiliate KPTV, police are back at the area where the 2nd-grade boy vanished from his Portland school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neighbors say the search by detectives has appeared to focus on pick-up truck owners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re saying that you failed two polygraph tests. Did you fail two polygraph tests?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) give us some privacy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I please speak with her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only person asked who was asked to take a second polygraph was Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the first failure, I think we were all concerned about it, but it was the behavior immediately following and the build-up to the next one that I think all of us just found completely unacceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won`t you talk with investigators? Are you cooperating?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can`t talk about the details of it, but we passed with flying colors, so...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I am just hearing in my ear as we are going to air that police have gone back to Kyron`s elementary school as we speak. They are going back and they are re-searching the elementary school, looking in every nook, every cranny for something they may have missed.
This is a shot of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, 3-foot-8, 50 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, thick eyeglasses, was wearing a back T-shirt with "CSI" on it, black cargo pants, white socks, black sneakers with orange trim. His dream was to be a cop.
The wire I`m getting right now, KPTV reporting that cops have looked previously at the elementary school but that they are back. They`re also focusing on people who drive pick-up trucks. Some in the area are saying that their homes have been searched, as well. Police will not comment on the report, but our reports are telling us they are back at the school searching.
I want to go straight back out to Jean Casarez. Jean, I want to talk to you about the alleged kidnap by Terri Horman and the sext messages and these photos. How do they fit into the police investigation?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s all very close in time because Michael Cook, who she allegedly hooked up with four days after Kyron went missing -- that would be in June. The alleged kidnap would have been when that temporary restraining order was filed with the court, before she was served it.
GRACE: To Bruce McCain (ph), former captain, sheriff`s office, attorney also, joining us out of Portland, Oregon. Bruce, weigh in.
BRUCE MCCAIN, FORMER SHERIFF`S OFFICE CAPTAIN: Well, Nancy, the thing that strikes me as most interesting as a lawyer in this case is the role of this family law divorce proceeding because if you look at the very beginning, the divorce itself, the restraining order, the contempt charge, the motion to have Terri moved out of her house, everything associated with this divorce case has been fed by the investigators and the district attorney. It really begs the question as to who`s actually controlling this divorce process as they open up a secondary legal front...
GRACE: Let me ask you something, McCain. Why do I care about the divorce process?
MCCAIN: Because...
GRACE: I care about finding Kyron. Explain to me why that`s even relevant to me.
MCCAIN: Because this is a mechanism to get Terri Horman into court.
GRACE: Ah!
MCCAIN: She cannot ignore this family court law. The prosecutors are the ones who are feeding this information, and they`ve opened up a second legal front against Terri Horman and it`s putting pressure on her and her criminal defense lawyer. She now has to appear in court, answer a circuit court judge in September, if not sooner.
GRACE: Bruce McCain, you are absolutely correct!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DESIREE YOUNG: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry I don`t even have words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s step mom to missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve about known her a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last person to allegedly see him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know she`s lying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of Kyron Horman, a missing Oregon boy, says his estranged wife has attempted to abduct their 20-month-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s still not cooperating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In new court documents Kane Horman alleges --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Kyron went missing she met and began a sexual relationship with Michael Cook. Who is Michael Cook?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of Kaine`s childhood friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just really want her to do the right thing and I can`t say it enough that Kyron is still out there, and he needs to be home.
NANCY GRACE, HEADLINE NEWS HOST: Back to Anne Bremner and Hugo Rodriguez. First of all, Anne Bremner, when you misquoted me earlier I said get the handcuffs. And I want you to explain to me why it is irrelevant that she is sending hundreds of sexual text messages and exclusive sex photos in the hours after her stepson disappears?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I heard you say get me a hand cuff but at any rate a pair of hand cuffs and it sure sounds like from you, Nancy --
GRACE: The handcuffs.
BREMNER: Okay. Well maybe I misheard over here.
GRACE: Yeah, maybe you did.
BREMNER: Sexting.
GRACE: Yeah, I can`t say that.
BREMNER: Denied having sex. Okay. I`ll say it. They denied having sex. How is that relevant --
GRACE: Anne, Anne, Anne, Anne, Anne.
BREMNER: Let`s assume it`s one of your other guests that --
GRACE: They denied having sex.
BREMNER: That`s right.
GRACE: She`s sending photos over her phone of every body part she`s got.
BREMNER: Those are two -- you know what?
GRACE: He probably didn`t know what it was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... an affair with one of Kaine Horman`s friends...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He admits that they were friends. He did not have sex with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his wife and Cook had been having an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were texts. There were photos.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her marriage started out as an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want Kyron to come home and have all this other stuff out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say? Do you know where Kyron is? Yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little boy is missing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... missing Oregon boy Kyron Horman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she was the last person to see him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmom Terri Horman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... all these other twists...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents suggest she came to the club looking to abduct her 20-month-old daughter, Kiara, from the gym day care center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... alleged murder-for-hire plot...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A landscaper claims Terri offered a large sum of money to kill her husband, Kaine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron`s father moved out, filed for divorce and got a restraining order.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In it, Kaine Horman said he believes his wife, Terri Horman, is involved in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right at this particular point, I think our detectives have got to -- they`re working on a very sound case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... waiting for that break that could come in the case at some point...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The focus is still to find little Kyron Horman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Looking for a break in the case? What more do you need? We now have the stepmom, who says she walked 7-year-old Kyron to his door after the science fair, his door in the elementary school, there in a very rural area. She says he is never seen again. We now have her cell phone popping up in other areas than where she says she was, an alleged attempt to hire a hit man to kill Kyron`s father, her husband, now hundreds of text messages, sexually-related, dozens of sexually explicit photos she`s sending over the computer. And this is after Kyron goes missing?
To top it all off, Matt Zarrell, are you telling me she tried to kidnap the 19-month-old baby girl from day care? What more do police need!
ZARRELL: Yes, police told Kaine Horman that on or about June 28th, the same exact day she was served with the restraining order, just before she was served, she went to the gym where Kaine Horman works out and was asking if Kaine Horman was there with Kiara. Now, he wasn`t, but Terri Horman told the clerk at the gym that the next time he comes in with Kiara, she wants him to call her because she wants to come and take Kiara.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle Anne Bremner. Also Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, former fed, joining me out of Miami.
Anne Bremner, she allegedly tries to hire a hit man to kill Kyron`s father, and she thinks she can have custody of the baby? No! No, no! It doesn`t work like that, Anne Bremner!
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, but Nancy, you said, Hand me a handcuff. I think you want a pair of handcuffs for her. But the fact is, one of these things is not like the others. You know, potentially hiring a hit man -- we don`t actual have proof of that, and that happened what, six months ago, supposedly? And then the child kidnapping? Uh-uh! The restraining order had yet to be served on her, so she had no legal requirement that she not take the child or be around the child.
And then, finally, when you`re looking at a supposed abduction of her own stepson, what kind of evidence do we really have? The last one that`s seen with him, yes. This is my part of the country, you know, Northwest. Everybody up here thinks she did it. But you know what? Is there evidence that she did it? I don`t know.
GRACE: Well, other than her lying to investigators...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... according to sources, Marc Klaas, about where she was after the child went missing.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, it`s one thing after another that just continues to pile up. And the whole problem is -- and this is what you`ve mentioned. The focus has to remain on finding little Kyron, and she`s just not giving up that information, which I believe is why they keep revealing ugly layer after ugly layer of her hideous behavior since the moment that he disappeared.
GRACE: You know, another issue. I want to go back to you, Jean Casarez. When she allegedly went to the day care -- which, number one, I don`t understand why the baby was in day care because she wasn`t working. So why is she, you know, stashing the baby in day care? But that`s a whole `nother can of worms. When she went to day care and told them to tell her, when he showed up with the baby, that she wanted to get the baby, when was the restraining order served on her in relation to that visit or that call to the day care?
CASAREZ: I think it was on the 28th, so I think it was the very same day the restraining order came down. Whether she had been served with it or not, I don`t know. But it was the day care that he works out at -- the gymnasium...
GRACE: Oh, it`s the gym day care.
CASAREZ: Yes, the gym day care.
GRACE: All right. But that`s -- that`s a different story. She`s just putting child there while she goes and works out. OK, I understand that. Tell me again about the date that happened, Jean Casarez, and the date that she said, When he comes to the day care, I want to know about it.
CASAREZ: That`s right. She went to the gym day care thinking he might be working out, and the baby, their baby, would be in the day care. And she wanted to abduct it. Now, that`s the words of the clerk because...
GRACE: But what was that day? What day did she go to the day care to try to find the baby?
CASAREZ: I think it was June 28th.
GRACE: And what day was the restraining order?
CASAREZ: June 28th.
GRACE: All right, there you go, Hugo Rodriguez. And if you just look at it -- I heard what Bremner said, that she hadn`t been served yet. Well, you know what? If she hadn`t been served, it`s a technicality because she clearly knew that...
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, she didn`t.
GRACE: ... she was going to try to get the baby. Why -- if she didn`t know he was keeping the baby from her, why would she say, Let me know, call me when he comes, I`m going to come get the baby?
RODRIGUEZ: The restraining order had not been served.
GRACE: So?
RODRIGUEZ: She had no idea that it was coming. She did not know it was coming. The restraining order is based on the allegation that she was going to hire somebody six months prior. There was nothing improper with her asking about her child and wanting to see her child. Nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search is under way now for 7-year-old Kyron Horman. According to affiliate KPTV, police are back at the area where the 2nd-grade boy vanished from his Portland school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neighbors say the search by detectives has appeared to focus on pick-up truck owners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re saying that you failed two polygraph tests. Did you fail two polygraph tests?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) give us some privacy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I please speak with her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only person asked who was asked to take a second polygraph was Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the first failure, I think we were all concerned about it, but it was the behavior immediately following and the build-up to the next one that I think all of us just found completely unacceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won`t you talk with investigators? Are you cooperating?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can`t talk about the details of it, but we passed with flying colors, so...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I am just hearing in my ear as we are going to air that police have gone back to Kyron`s elementary school as we speak. They are going back and they are re-searching the elementary school, looking in every nook, every cranny for something they may have missed.
This is a shot of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, 3-foot-8, 50 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, thick eyeglasses, was wearing a back T-shirt with "CSI" on it, black cargo pants, white socks, black sneakers with orange trim. His dream was to be a cop.
The wire I`m getting right now, KPTV reporting that cops have looked previously at the elementary school but that they are back. They`re also focusing on people who drive pick-up trucks. Some in the area are saying that their homes have been searched, as well. Police will not comment on the report, but our reports are telling us they are back at the school searching.
I want to go straight back out to Jean Casarez. Jean, I want to talk to you about the alleged kidnap by Terri Horman and the sext messages and these photos. How do they fit into the police investigation?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s all very close in time because Michael Cook, who she allegedly hooked up with four days after Kyron went missing -- that would be in June. The alleged kidnap would have been when that temporary restraining order was filed with the court, before she was served it.
GRACE: To Bruce McCain (ph), former captain, sheriff`s office, attorney also, joining us out of Portland, Oregon. Bruce, weigh in.
BRUCE MCCAIN, FORMER SHERIFF`S OFFICE CAPTAIN: Well, Nancy, the thing that strikes me as most interesting as a lawyer in this case is the role of this family law divorce proceeding because if you look at the very beginning, the divorce itself, the restraining order, the contempt charge, the motion to have Terri moved out of her house, everything associated with this divorce case has been fed by the investigators and the district attorney. It really begs the question as to who`s actually controlling this divorce process as they open up a secondary legal front...
GRACE: Let me ask you something, McCain. Why do I care about the divorce process?
MCCAIN: Because...
GRACE: I care about finding Kyron. Explain to me why that`s even relevant to me.
MCCAIN: Because this is a mechanism to get Terri Horman into court.
GRACE: Ah!
MCCAIN: She cannot ignore this family court law. The prosecutors are the ones who are feeding this information, and they`ve opened up a second legal front against Terri Horman and it`s putting pressure on her and her criminal defense lawyer. She now has to appear in court, answer a circuit court judge in September, if not sooner.
GRACE: Bruce McCain, you are absolutely correct!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DESIREE YOUNG: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry I don`t even have words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s step mom to missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve about known her a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last person to allegedly see him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know she`s lying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of Kyron Horman, a missing Oregon boy, says his estranged wife has attempted to abduct their 20-month-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s still not cooperating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In new court documents Kane Horman alleges --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Kyron went missing she met and began a sexual relationship with Michael Cook. Who is Michael Cook?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of Kaine`s childhood friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just really want her to do the right thing and I can`t say it enough that Kyron is still out there, and he needs to be home.
NANCY GRACE, HEADLINE NEWS HOST: Back to Anne Bremner and Hugo Rodriguez. First of all, Anne Bremner, when you misquoted me earlier I said get the handcuffs. And I want you to explain to me why it is irrelevant that she is sending hundreds of sexual text messages and exclusive sex photos in the hours after her stepson disappears?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I heard you say get me a hand cuff but at any rate a pair of hand cuffs and it sure sounds like from you, Nancy --
GRACE: The handcuffs.
BREMNER: Okay. Well maybe I misheard over here.
GRACE: Yeah, maybe you did.
BREMNER: Sexting.
GRACE: Yeah, I can`t say that.
BREMNER: Denied having sex. Okay. I`ll say it. They denied having sex. How is that relevant --
GRACE: Anne, Anne, Anne, Anne, Anne.
BREMNER: Let`s assume it`s one of your other guests that --
GRACE: They denied having sex.
BREMNER: That`s right.
GRACE: She`s sending photos over her phone of every body part she`s got.
BREMNER: Those are two -- you know what?
GRACE: He probably didn`t know what it was.
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